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Ask HN: My app is being bullied on Google webstore, What to do?
48 points by sanchitml on Sept 6, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 56 comments
My latest free webstore app (Link given below) is being attacked by group of cyber bullies from past 2 days. Here are the details:

Day 0: - I had almost 100 reviews on my app. Most of them were 5/5. And chrome webstore was showing full five stars for this app.

Day 1: - A guy (with empty profile) posted a 1/5 rating, claiming that my app is not safe to use. And interestingly only the same day, I got more than 20 new 1-out-of-5 ratings, and none of them had any text reviews. Generally I rarely get less than 5/5 rating, you can check from the below link.

Day 2: At Day 1's end, I posted a reply on the guy's review that my app is safe, and you can contact me on the given ID. Next day I woke up and saw, his 1/5 review starting with "Avoid this app" is on the top, and my reply was completely removed. Which can only happen when lot of people click on mark-as-spam.

So, I need help from you guys. I do not have any contact at Google, and even if there was not sure how much they can help. Any suggestions what should I do next?

Note: We can discuss this later/seperately, but my app is 100% safe and I am an ethical developer.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-notes-just-popped/plpdjbappofmfbgdmhoaabefbobddchk/



"Inspectlet records videos of your visitors as they use your site, allowing you to see everything they do. See every mouse movement, scroll, click, and keypress on your site. You never need to wonder how visitors are using your site again."

Why would you use a service like this in your extension? Sounds like a dumb idea to me! They are privacy intrusive and say that proudly on their main page, so you were not tricked into using a malicious tracking service, you diligently chose it - the bad reviews are justified.


The reviews on there look fine to me. The one guy is being a bit paranoid and dickish but you can never please everyone.

Sure, you got a few bad reviews out of it, but unless it continues for several days I wouldn't worry too much about it. FWIW I haven't looked at the app or its source code but I wouldn't call this "cyber bullying".

Have you considered releasing the source code on github and linking to it so people can easily take a look and see for themselves?


It's true. I own a company that makes casual games. We had people yelling so loudly that the game cheated and dealing hands wasn't random that we actually posted the source code. It doesn't mean anything - loud people more often want to hear their own loudness than anything.

We have millions of players, but the most vocally aggressively negative - those that just bash us as a company and as liars non-stop have been playing our games for years. YEARS.

You will never get away from trolls in any industry that has public reviews. Ask any restaurateur on Yelp, anyone with an app on any App Store, etc. It's absurd but just part of the deal at this point in time.


What strikes me most is that the highly vocal, polarizing negative reviewers are mostly filled with false information.


Happy to release the code. But will take some time from my end. Thanks for this suggestion.

Not sure myself about the term "Cyber Bullying", but I used this word because I got:

1). more than 20 1-ratings (You cannot see these 20-25 negative ratings as there are were no text reviews written with it.)

2). few complaints+emails on the same day.

3). And my app rating came down from 5 to 4, thats a huge setback on the competitive end. (Lost the app's repo which took an year to build)

4). Few comments which have been cross-upvoted so all new / old users sees them on top. And my reply down-voted by the same group that it was removed completely by Chrome. Today I had to reply on it for the third time. And I do not have bandwidth to keep refreshing page every few hours.


The developer had already posted the source code on GitHub back in March 16 2014 and has not pushed anything since. Somewhere between March and September he added Inspectlet, Google Analytics and Double Click to his local copy and uploaded it Chrome Web Store.

I came across this junk by chance. I needed a note-taking app. Simple as that. I became suspicious after I noticed the websocket connection to herokuapp.com — he's logging client IP ... no sh*t.


Did you remove the analytics piece the review seems to be complaining about? If so I can imagine that someone might be upset that they couldn't disable it.


Yes, removed it ages ago. Was trying this new analytics startup, never worked out though.


I just installed your extension and looked at the source. The Google tracking/analytics code appears to still be there at least, both in popup.js (referenced by popup.html) and in jquery.js (which is apparently more than just jquery?). At least it seems that all you're tracking is behavioral info, but still it seems a bit much. Especially for an extension that calls itself private and secure.


How should I mention that private & secure is about the 'note data', not how much time menu item was opened.

Also I enquired about the privacy issue in Google Analytics, only thing I got was: - "Google tracks that visit via the user's IP address in order to determine the user's approximate geographic location."

I am using is custom events. Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure.

Read Privacy Issue section on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues.

What I feel from all these is - it is justified to call the app secure as its about the user data, not anonymized behaviour analysis. That is only for app improvement, and independent of a particular person (ie. privacy).


What I'm saying is that an app which claims to be secure & private should not be running any kind of analytics on user behavior in their browser.


> Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure.

Hahaha... No, of course it will not be. No app with phone-home analytics is private.


An app promising keeping your notes and note data private doesnt necessarily need to avoid analytics. Analytics and aggregate user data cant be avoided if a developer wants to improve user experience. Keeping users and their experience at the center isnt a bad thing. Your note data isnt logged to any servers in this app.


I would not consider it private, at all, though. It's not privacy if every click you make is being monitored and analyzed.


Gathering aggregated and anonymized 'doesnot' hamper privacy.

If we look at any authentic reference (Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues) we will find only when an app associates behaviour-analytics with attributes such as IP Addresses and Geolocation data, it may debate privacy issues, otherwise not.

If you see the word 'privacy', it only activates when an individual is being talked about. There are no specific users on this app, no email id, no unique id. All requests are considered similar irrespective of origin.


Look, you're welcome to think what you think, but I've read the source code of your app and I am not comfortable using it, so I won't. Furthermore Google Analytics has access to the user's IP address, and even though it may not display it to you, Google still gets that information.

As for your claim of "no unique id", this is simply false. Google Analytics keeps track of an unique id for each user, they can tell you the count of unique visitors after all.

When you're boasting about privacy, do not track your users. What else are you meaning to imply with "privacy"? That the notes are not being sent to your server? Well, I goddamn hope so. Is there anything that makes your app more private than any other?


> Gathering aggregated and anonymized 'doesnot' hamper privacy.

To put it bluntly, I don't give a flying f%ck about this. You said "private" and then your app phoned home behind my back - you outright lied to me. There's one definition of privacy, doubly so for people who actually care about it, and it doesn't come with weasel caveats like yours. So that one star you got is wholly justified and you should really listen to what people here are telling you, because that's exactly the feedback you are not getting from people giving you 1 star in the Chrome store.

In the end it's all really simple - either remove analytics from the app or remove "private" from its description.


> Your note data isnt logged to any servers in this app.

Analytics aggregate data are just the strawman. Note data WAS in fact being recorded from individual users and sent to Inspectlet servers.


Your app is neither private nor secure. I saved the original version before you read my review. DevTools clearly shows it recording keystroke events. Just out of curiosity, why did your app also open a websocket connection to herokuapp.com?


I've seen loads of extensions that use Google Analytics to track user behavior. They of course post this on the details page with a link to the Opt-Out.

Could you tell us more about the "new analytics startup"? It seems like that's the code the reviewer was referring to (which you have said is no longer there in the extension)


[flagged]


I understand your apriori response, but there is a huge difference between analytics and keylogging. Analytics in app is a tool with which we provide better and better software to the end user. This has nothing to do with privacy.

Just like 10 out of 1000 people click on this button so I should remove it. 400 out of 1000 people use this feature, so I should improve it.

How about educating end users on the analytics vs privacy part.


I noticed that Google has updated their privacy policy on using analytics https://developer.chrome.com/apps/analytics#privacy

It USED to read that you had to ask for opt-in permission BEFORE you began tracking (which is the current pattern my app follows, but how many other apps/extensions have I seen do this?.... 0).

In my app, upon install/launch it prompts the user with a popup asking if they would like to help the developer out by sending anonymous data. I made it opt-in (the user had to explicitly check the box). Out of a daily 4500 Active Users, I only have 4 people who opted in (it's less than 0.1% for those who don't want to do the math).

With the old policy of requiring user's permission to opt-in, it makes it really difficult for any developer (who follows the rules) to get any valid feedback. I've posted on the Google Group and Stack Overflow and the question is basically ignored because it's an open secret that most people simply treat it like any website analytics as in they embed the code to track and move on.

I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice:

[ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>>

TLDR; You'll get 0.1% compliance if you make data collection opt-in and you're upfront about data collection... it sucks because it makes the whole "Collect/Analyze Data" part of Development very difficult.


> I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice:

> [ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>>

IMO the wording is really important here. If I were to write this section of user preferences, I'd go for something like:

▸ Help improve X

Click on which expands the panel:

□ Allow collecting anonymized information about the usage of the application. It will be used for <reasons>. Only the following data will be sent to us over encrypted connection: <easy-to-understand list>. <<Learn more>>

(I know it's easy to give advice, though, and I don't have my own product on which to test copy ideas yet.)


Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue...

My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in.


> Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue...

> My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in.

And, perhaps, avoided completely–once your shop has resources to spare for in-house testing and usability research.


Fact: Recording user behavior is extremely common...

My opinion: ...and users shouldn't act surprised by it.


Almost all websites have analytics these days. Agreed, it should be disclosed but making it opt-in would render analytics useless as less than 1% people would agree to it. Most analytics is not even a privacy issue as clickthroughs and bounce rates do not carry any personal fingerprints.


i consider my IP address a personal detail as well as all the browser information that gets used as a fingerprint. The web would be a nicer place without all the analytics, I miss the 90s.


While analytics is pretty standard, I'd specify what information the app is sending home, and that it's a standard practice (as in almost every app/site sends this data).

I installed your extension, and it's fantastic - here's my 5 star review!


Analytics in a web browser extension... its just not a thing I can tolerate. Sorry.


It is as same as being in Mobile, you tolerate that?

IMHO all static websites have analytics, yes the HTML one's too. Browser extension need tools like analytics 100x more.


No I don't tolerate analytics on my phone (thats just insane!).

None of my websites have analytics, and I feel violated by the ones that do. Especially newspaper websites are big offenders. I even go as far that my custom build web server does not have a log. I don't want to know who visits my website, in fact if I had a log I'd get rid of it like it was the plague.

Why don't you just ask your customers what they want? That's what I do, I believe I also get more accurate information that way.


I don't think analytics is what you think it means. Analytics is NOT a key/screenshot logger. It's just sending data about what parts of the app the user is using, which can help you improve the app.


Actually I am a software engineer. So I know pretty well what I am talking about.


A note of "trust me, I promise this is legit" is exactly what I would expect from a piece of malware. You need to directly address the allegations of using a keylogger/screenlogger somewhere to counter the negative review, not just say "No, I promise this is clean".

Just my 2c.


I mentioned my email-id there, to contact and discuss their concerns with me. If someone still feels unsatisfied, he is allowed to post a negative review. But bringing 25+ 1/5 ratings with him on the same day, getting my replies group-downvoted is not a solution.

If the developer is not meant to be trusted, then what is a good solution to this problem? Not everyone would want to open-source their app/game.


Your app is already "open source", I can download the crx and look at all the source code, but not a lot of people do this. If you want to seem trustworthy then put it on github with a restrictive license if you feel so inclined.


yep source code of all chrome apps is available to everyone yet I wont call it open source. Open source is a step more from source code being available. I second the decision for choosing a restrictive license and putting the code over github.


Yeah, I know it's not technically called open source, but I mean that the source is available and readable. Hence the quotes. :)


I just noticed that the said "bully" has stated in his comments that you had integrated inspectlet.com. I checked it out and it looks like a screen recording service. If this is truly the case, then I think he may be correct as interpreting this as a violation of privacy.

I think the best course of action would be to do the following

1. Put up code on github as others have suggested, thereby reassuring existing users

2. Publicly state in a reply to the comment that you had indeed integrated the screen recording service to help you understand user behavior, so that you could make a better app.

3. Put a disclaimer on the details page for Google Analytics with a link to opt out.


"Bully" is not for that comment or his words (Ofcourse he should have contacted me first) but for the following: (copied from below comments)

1). more than 20 1-ratings (You cannot see these 20-25 negative ratings as there are were no text reviews written with it.) 2). mass complaints sent to Google that day. 3). And my app rating came down from 5 to 4, thats a huge setback on the competitive end. (Lost the app's repo which took an year to build) 4). Few false reviews which have been cross-upvoted so all new users sees them on top. And my reply down-voted by the same group that it was removed completely by Chrome.

And there has never been such thing as Inspectlet in the app, and also the person who commented this is not communicating with me, so I would let this one go. And thus no need for that statement. Will make the app opensource, so this will never be an issue in the future, "hopefully".


> And there has never been such thing as Inspectlet in the app

Looks like you forgot to delete the HTML comment tag, "<!-- Begin Inspectlet Embed Code -->", from the bottom of popup.html. You may want to do it asap before he "lies" about that too ;)

> Will make the app opensource, so this will never be an issue in the future, "hopefully".

You already made it open-source (https://github.com/Epinx/Sticky-Notes), but then uploaded a separate malicious version to the chrome web store. Open-sourcing it would only give users the impression that it's safe, while giving you a chance to twist and slither away like you just did.


> And there has never been such thing as Inspectlet in the app

I had downloaded the crx file before you removed Inspectlet. Yes. There was such a thing as Inspectlet in the app, and it was used specifically to record user keystrokes.


I am the guy who made the original claim. You integrated the Inspectlet screen recorder and keylogger into your extension. Enough said.

The popup's textarea className had a hyphen, which caused inspectlet to include this in the data to upstream. This was done deliberately; if you were watching user's on your end, you would have noticed and corrected this. Instead, you allowed this to go on for months.

You were also doing this in your $7.99 "pro" version, which was mysteriously unpublished days later... Here's a suggestion: why don't you unpublish this one too and get off the webstore.


Does putting an analytics piece inside of a Chrome extension allow the creator to see which website a user is currently viewing when using the extension? Or are the analytics limited to the extension itself? For example, a simple extension that makes the background-color of the current page red, if there are analytics on that extension could the developer potentialy know which site the user is on?


Simple anonymized analytics, like clicking of a button. Basically the analytics without which nowadays apps/websites are considered incomplete.

Chrome doesnt allow extensions to get that data unless the extension asks for daring permissions like "Access your data on all websites".

Currently the app asks for no such permission. There were some features I planned to integrate like user right-click a text and click on 'send to Sticky note', but now terrified whether to even ask for such permissions.


AFAIK - Yes. The developer could potentially run the analytics in the background html and from the content scripts track events sending the url as parameters.


Dont really know why its being targeted. I see a key logger comment, any extensions being used that might be suspect? and something on analytics? which I see you say has been removed . Anyway its hard to stop a chain of bad targeted comments, but it shouldn't really affect until it continues to happen for a few days. Trolls will be trolls


There are going to be a few dicks at every party. You can't really avoid that out here...


Yeah, he had a keylogger before.


Perhaps, you need to distinguish between aggregate analytics and keylogging.


The tool he was using is not only a keylogger but is capable of recording videos of users while using his app. We know how to distinguish, he was using a keylogger and video recorder.


The whole point of me posting this on HackerNews was 'The Guy on webstore is lying'.

Which part do you not understand when I say I NEVER used any keylogger. This is the only reason I didnt comment on any of your comments. Please edit or remove them.


> The whole point of me posting this on HackerNews was 'The Guy on webstore is lying'.

I'm that guy. No, I am not lying. I have the original version (prior to Aug 27 update) that recorded keystrokes.

After reading your comments on this thread, it seems to me that you're in a panic and desperately trying to dispel the whole thing. My only regret is that I didn't get to warn people earlier.


I am sorry buddy, wrong 'Guess'.


sdfs




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