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House prices are out of wack anywhere desirable because the local income is irrelevant when non-locals are allowed to scoop up the local supply.


This is a common opinion that never actually matches the facts.

The issue is all the things blocking supply. As long as supply is blocked, prices will go up, Period


But why allow e.g. Chinese investors to buy property in SF if they aren't even going to live there?


1. It's only an investment because of limited supply.

2. Chinese investors buying up and not living there is effectively a myth. There just are aren't very many of them.

3. What's special about "Chinese"? If a rich NYC finance person buys a vacation home in SF is that ok? How about a Brit or German?


The supply may be limited because the people who own property want it to remain so.

Do they pay property taxes?


In California? With prop 13? Hardly.

We invented money as a way of distributing scares resources. When there is housing going empty while people live on the streets in tents with no running water, no electricity, no sewage, one has to realize that something's gone wrong.


I don’t think you understand how prop 13 works

The slow phase-out of prop 13 was voted in a couple years ago so it should become less relevant over time.

Maybe but that will certainly not bring down prices for the average US citizen looking for a home.


Why not?

House prices are only "out of wack" in areas with poor social housing programs.

Housing in Vienna is still affordable, only due to their very successful public housing programs. Public housing can be both beautiful and highly affordable if you want it to be, it's not like we don't know how to make good quality homes with lovely public amenities. It's mostly developers that want to skim on everything while selling it at the highest cost possible.

Poor system if this is the outcome: unaffordability.


How does Vienna ration housing - social or otherwise - if not via price?

Your reply suggests you're thinking inside a very strange (to me) box.

Have you considered… not rationing housing?

As in, you can actually pay people to build more houses, houses are not a fixed resource. Likewise roads, schools, shopping centres etc., they're all things you can just pay to get built. Only thing a little harder amongst the usual talking points is hospitals, but that's because medical qualifications take so long, not because you can't do it.


Except we know it’s not possible to just provide the required supply

On the contrary, we have plenty of historical examples where we did exactly that.

Home construction per year over in the last century in the UK: https://fullfact.org/economy/house-building-england/

And Germany since 1950: https://www.dba-bau.com/news/seit-1950-wurden-in-der-bundesr...

Note they were higher in the past.


I am interested in what is working in Vienna when “housing problem” is what almost every city in “the West” has or thinks it has.

To me it seems to be a combination of

- wealth inequality (eg 20/30 trillion dollars was printed and furloughed out in Covid, which funnels its way up to the holders of the most assets, seeing asset price inflation but no attempt to tax back the money printed). Repeat on different scales for unfair tax systems and poor infrastructure and and and

- urban planning (we think the ideal city is dense using seven storey or so apartment buildings and fairly aggressive anti-car (ie far less parking than seems possible) with better public transport and lots of pedestrian access. This describes almost no cities

- mortgages and other pro house incentives. You want house price inflation for decade after decade, just allow people to borrow a greater ratio against their salary — and allow married women into the workplace. Suddenly turning a mortgage limit of 2.5 x a man’s salary into 5x a dual couples salary. People bid up prices, forcing more couples to have two salaries to compete. And companies don’t have to increase salary to compensate … people combine salaries and go deeper into debt. Hell if you only had one policy weapon, forcing 2.5 borrowing against one highest paid persons salary is not a bad one. You won’t get re-elected however.


I don’t follow it but your last suggestion (use single income not household) was new to me and interesting in as much as it seems like an obvious extension of “The Two-Income Trap” thinking.

To some extent seems like it would also provide a margin of safety given homogeneity effects eg https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/working-pa...


1/3 of the housing stock in Vienna is social housing which belongs to and is managed by the city.

They offer low rents and therefore a large part of tenants dont compete on the private market, therefore pulling overall rents lower.


ChatGPT with no deeper diving thinks you are further off “”” Social/public rental makes up about 43% of the city’s housing stock; around half of that is city-owned public housing. The rest includes limited-profit housing associations and private housing.

“”” This compares with London around 20%, paris 24% and NYC 9%

So yeah that makes a huge difference…


Countries like Indonesia have banned foreigners from owning land altogether. You can apparently still own property through land-lease agreements and other arrangements, but not the land. I think they've cracked down on illegal rentals too.


Real estate prices are out of whack everywhere. Even in places with no good jobs, low population density, and rapid depopulation, real estate prices are increasing exponentially. There are no market forces in play anymore.


House prices in the U.K. have remained roughly the same multiple of wages as they have been since about 2005. That’s not really exponential growth.



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