My prediction: If we can successfully get rid of most software engineers, we can get rid of most knowledge work. Given the state of robotics, manual labor is likely to outlive intellectual labor.
I would have agreed with this a few months ago, but something Ive learned is that the ability to verify an LLMs output is paramount to its value. In software, you can review its output, add tests, on top of other adversarial techniques to verify the output immediately after generation.
With most other knowledge work, I don't think that is the case. Maybe actuarial or accounting work, but most knowledge work exists at a cross section of function and taste, and the latter isn't an automatically verifiable output.
I also believe this - I think it will probably just disrupt software engineering and any other digital medium with mass internet publication (i.e. things RLVR can use). For the short term future it seems to need a lot of data to train on, and no other profession has posted the same amount of verifiable material. The open source altruism has disrupted the profession in the end; just not in the way people first predicted. I don't think it will disrupt most knowledge work for a number of reasons. Most knowledge professions have "credentials' (i.e. gatekeeping) and they can see what is happening to SWE's and are acting accordingly. I'm hearing it firsthand at least locally in things like law, even accounting, etc. Society will ironically respect these professions more for doing so.
Any data, verifiability, rules of thumb, tests, etc are being kept secret. You pay for the result, but don't know the means.
I mean law and accounting usually have a “right” answer that you can verify against. I can see a test data set being built for most professions. I’m sure open source helps with programming data but I doubt that’s even the majority of their training. If you have a company like Google you could collect data on decades of software work in all its dimensions from your workforce
It's not about invalidating your conclusion, but I'm not so sure about law having a right answer. At a very basic level, like hypothetical conduct used in basic legal training matrerials or MCQs, or in criminal/civil code based situations in well-abstracting Roman law-based jurisdictions, definitely.
But the actual work, at least for most lawyers is to build on many layers of such abstractions to support your/client's viwepoint.
And that level is already about persuasion of other people, not having the "right" legal argument or applying the most correct case found. And this part is not documented well, approaches changes a lot, even if law remains the same.
Think of family law or law of succession - does not change much over centuries but every day, worldwide, millions of people spend huge amounts of money and energy on finding novel ways to turn those same paragraphs to their advantage and put their "loved" ones and relatives in a worse position.
Not really. I used to think more general with the first generation of LLM's but given all progress since o1 is RL based I'm thinking most disruption will happen in open productive domains and not closed domains. Speaking to people in these professions they don't think SWE's have any self respect and so in your example of law:
* Context is debatable/result isn't always clear: The way to interpret that/argue your case is different (i.e. you are paying for a service, not a product)
* Access to vast training data: Its very unlikely that they will train you and give you data to their practice especially as they are already in a union like structure/accreditation. Its like paying for a binary (a non-decompilable one) without source code (the result) rather than the source and the validation the practitioner used to get there.
* Variability of real world actors: There will be novel interpretations that invalidate the previous one as new context comes along.
* Velocity vs ability to make judgement: As a lawyer I prefer to be paid higher for less velocity since it means less judgement/less liability/less risk overall for myself and the industry. Why would I change that even at an individual level? Less problem of the commons here.
* Tolerance to failure is low: You can't iterate, get feedback and try again until "the tests pass" in a court room unlike "code on a text file". You need to have the right argument the first time. AI/ML generally only works where the end cost of failure is low (i.e can try again and again to iron out error terms/hallucinations). Its also why I'm skeptical AI will do much in the real economy even with robots soon - failure has bigger consequences in the real world ($$$, lives, etc).
* Self employment: There is no tension between say Google shareholders and its employees as per your example - especially for professions where you must trade in your own name. Why would I disrupt myself? The cost I charge is my profit.
TL;DR: Gatekeeping, changing context, and arms race behavior between participants/clients. Unfortunately I do think software, art, videos, translation, etc are unique in that there's numerous examples online and has the property "if I don't like it just re-roll" -> to me RLVR isn't that efficient - it needs volumes of data to build its view. Software sadly for us SWE's is the perfect domain for this; and we as practitioners of it made it that way through things like open source, TDD, etc and giving it away free on public platforms in numerous quantities.
"Given the state of robotics" reminds me a lot of what was said about llms and image/video models over the past 3 years. Considering how much llms improved, how long can robotics be in this state?
I have to think 3 years from now we will be having the same conversation about robots doing real physical labor.
"This is the worst they will ever be" feels more apt.
but robotics had the means to do majority of the physical labour already - it's just not worth the money to replace humans, as human labour is cheap (and flexible - more than robots).
With knowledge work being less high-paying, physical labour supply should increase as well, which drops their price. This means it's actually less likely that the advent of LLM will make physical labour more automated.
Curious if you have any links about the rapid progression of robotics (as someone who is not educated on the topic).
It was my feeling with robotics that the more challenging aspect will be making them economically viable rather than simply the challenge of the task itself.
I mentioned military in my reply to the sibling comment - that is the most ready example. What anduril and others are doing today may be sloppy, but it's moving very quickly.
The question is how rapid the adoption is. The price of failure in the real world is much higher ($$$, environmental, physical risks) vs just "rebuild/regenerate" in the digital realm.
Maybe. There the cost of failure again is low. Its easier to destroy than to create. Economic disruption to workers will take a bit longer I think.
Don't get me wrong; I hope that we do see it in physical work as well. There is more value to society there; and consists of work that is risky and/or hard to do - and is usually needed (food, shelter, etc). It also means that the disruption is an "everyone" problem rather than something that just affects those "intellectual" types.
That’s the deep irony of technology IMHO, that innovation follows Conway's law on a meta layer: White collar workers inevitably shaped high technology after themselves, and instead of finally ridding humanity of hard physical labour—as was the promise of the Industrial Revolution—we imitate artists, scientists, and knowledge workers.
We can now use natural language to instruct computers generate stock photos and illustrations that would take a professional artist a few years ago, discover new molecule shapes, beat the best Go players, build the code for entire applications, or write documents of various shapes and lengths—but painting a wall? An unsurmountable task that requires a human to execute reliably, not even talking about economics.
