My source is nearly two thousand years of well-documented history.
> For many, it is a place where they find community and make friends and build their lives around.
That is completely beside the point that not every person gets to have this positive relationship with their cult community, and that some find themselves in its crosshairs.
> This kind of crosses into a personal attack, but I'll let it slide
No. Lol. Calling your viewpoint ignorant is not a personal attack. It's objectively ignorant, as you have already demonstrated. "Let it slide?" Did Jesus teach you that one? You need to check yourself and tone down the pompousness and patronizing attitude in your posts.
> With empathy, God didn't do that to you, you don't even believe in him so it wouldn't make sense for you to blame him
I don't blame an imaginary patriarch who was whitewashed in order to establish colonial White supremacy.
> perhaps you're in for a treat later in life :)
I'm going to again request that you tone down the patronizing, I-know-better-than-you attitude. Apparently you did not pick up on Jesus' teachings of humility.
> if a crime has been committed against you, there are social structures in place to call in for help, and judge and punish the people involved
More demonstrable ignorance. I had no one. Everyone I told ignored what was happening, and the police who frequently ended up at my home told me to endure my abuse or find myself in a more abusive foster care system. The Church and my Catholic family empowered this man to do whatever he wanted. You can't just disbelieve this away. I know you're used to just deciding on randomly believing or disbelieving things without veritable proof, but that's not how reality works. My experience is real, and cannot be shallowly dismissed without acknowledgement as to the very real, very documented violent history of the Church, including the Vatican's ongoing direct involvement of covering up child abuse within its ranks, which again, is public record, with plenty of court cases you can google at your leisure.
> Oh yeah, because I should have taken offense at that and throw a tantrum, instead of writing a thoughtful comment. Sure.
Now you're just in denial and being sarcastic, presenting a false dichotomy. No, there were more than two choices you could make when replying, and practicing some humility would reveal those options to you.
Man, this needs to stop, this is not the place for that.
I can see this is a topic that gets you very emotional but neither me nor this community can bring justice to you.
If you need help I'll be glad to do what I can, email in profile, or <username>.com.
I won't engage in this conversation further, not because of you, you can write to me as much as you want over there; but because it deviates from the purpose of the site.
> I can see this is a topic that gets you very emotional but neither me nor this community can bring justice to you
More patronization and smuggery. At no point have I displayed an overemotional response.
> If you need help I'll be glad to do what I can
You need help, but I don't think you're ready to see that. Go back and read through the Bible again, both Testaments, ironically it should help you see the error of your ways here.
> because it deviates from the purpose of the site
You know when you've lost a debate, and that's fine. I hope you have learned something, and next time someone shares their real, valid, negative experiences with the Church, you are not so quick to attempt to invalidate and correct them. There is still much for you to learn about the Church, I have learned what I needed to and moved on. Hopefully that happens one day for you, too. I sincerely mean that. The Church is a perverse organization and you can do better.
Thank you for laying it out so plainly. The “let’s gather every perspective” line only works when the people doing the gathering aren't patting survivors on the head. Walking the sun‑lit nave doesn’t qualify anyone to lecture the folks who were locked in the crypt.
Ironically, your patience here feels a lot closer to the humility we’re all supposed to be learning!
Amen to that. My patron saint is Joan of Arc, who was famously burned at the stake at 17 by the English church for wearing pants. She got plenty of lectures in her day and stuck to her principles, even when it cost her life.
My source is nearly two thousand years of well-documented history.
> For many, it is a place where they find community and make friends and build their lives around.
That is completely beside the point that not every person gets to have this positive relationship with their cult community, and that some find themselves in its crosshairs.
> This kind of crosses into a personal attack, but I'll let it slide
No. Lol. Calling your viewpoint ignorant is not a personal attack. It's objectively ignorant, as you have already demonstrated. "Let it slide?" Did Jesus teach you that one? You need to check yourself and tone down the pompousness and patronizing attitude in your posts.
> With empathy, God didn't do that to you, you don't even believe in him so it wouldn't make sense for you to blame him
I don't blame an imaginary patriarch who was whitewashed in order to establish colonial White supremacy.
> perhaps you're in for a treat later in life :)
I'm going to again request that you tone down the patronizing, I-know-better-than-you attitude. Apparently you did not pick up on Jesus' teachings of humility.
> if a crime has been committed against you, there are social structures in place to call in for help, and judge and punish the people involved
More demonstrable ignorance. I had no one. Everyone I told ignored what was happening, and the police who frequently ended up at my home told me to endure my abuse or find myself in a more abusive foster care system. The Church and my Catholic family empowered this man to do whatever he wanted. You can't just disbelieve this away. I know you're used to just deciding on randomly believing or disbelieving things without veritable proof, but that's not how reality works. My experience is real, and cannot be shallowly dismissed without acknowledgement as to the very real, very documented violent history of the Church, including the Vatican's ongoing direct involvement of covering up child abuse within its ranks, which again, is public record, with plenty of court cases you can google at your leisure.
> Oh yeah, because I should have taken offense at that and throw a tantrum, instead of writing a thoughtful comment. Sure.
Now you're just in denial and being sarcastic, presenting a false dichotomy. No, there were more than two choices you could make when replying, and practicing some humility would reveal those options to you.