True. I'm also trying to provide some perspective to younger job hunters that while now it is more difficult to get a job than anytime since the Obama era, it was much, much harder during the George Bush Jr. era which wasn't all that long ago and I suspect there are a lot of folks here on HN who were working back then.
Personally, I can go further. Things weren't too great during George Bush Sr. era where we had a recession so bad the media started calling it a depression. It resulted in the infamous "jobless recovery." Duly noted that Junior was able to beat his dad in the economy wrecking, job destroying department.
Before that we had the big market crash of 1987, which was really the planting of the recession George Bush Sr. inherited. He just unintentionally nurtured it along until it became a full-on, economy-wrecking recession.
Younger HNers take note of the pattern going on here.
I don't know about that. During all previous major downturns, the base-level credential was a high school diploma or lower (yes, even during the GFC). That's no longer the case. Whatever our older siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. had to do, tack on another 4 years just to get your foot in the door.
A lot of the people being hit today got their first wallops during 2008 (and were affected by their older relatives' struggles during 2001), so you're dealing with compounding misfortune. Oh, also, more people. There are almost 3 times as many people in the US today than during the Great Depression; almost 100 million (~30%) more people than in 1990. It's fundamentally more competitive just on a body count basis.
The only change I see is that the media is more savvy about pretending things are better than they actually are, at the behest of their financiers. You'll finally admit that we had it the worst sometime after your recognition would have made any difference, I suspect.
EDIT: Did I mention the relative cost of housing (most people's largest expensive), transportation, and food in 2023 vs 1987? Because it's bad. Borrowing the lingo of my juniors: "You gripe because you had to pump gas or bag groceries for a few months to pay rent. I, forcing myself to DoorDash knowing that I won't be able to pay rent, am smothering the icebolt of panic in my breast with the bare hope that if I survive another month, there's a chance the markets will crash and the affluent Boomers in charge will FINALLY have to admit how bad things are and be forced to do something. We are not the same."
I was talking IT. Millions of IT folks, most having a 4 year degree, and even quite a few having advanced degrees, were tossed out onto the street en masse.IT has been requiring a 4 year degree (or equivalent experience) plus two years worth of work experience since the 1980's when I started my career.
In 1987 I bought a condo for $55K at 7.5% interest and thought I got a steal because I was buying for cheaper than rent. I just looked up on Zillow and that property today is $163,200. That represents an average annual percentage increase of 5.46%. According to Google, IT salaries have increased an average of 3.8% per year every year since 1987. That indicates properties values are increasing at a rate of 1.6% per year faster than IT salaries are growing. But that needs to be tempered against interest rates being so much lower now than they were during the 80's and 90's.
The biggest difference between today and back then is the cost of higher education. College tuition has increased at an annualized percentage rate of 5.5% per year since 1987. That doesn't sound too bad until you realize the minimum wage has only increased by 2.3% per year over the same period - which now means students are no longer able to work a part-time job and go to school, which was very common when I went to college. Now they get loans. Then when they graduate, even though the housing market values hasn't increased too bad compared to IT wages, it's a lot when you also have a lot of student debt that we never had.
>IT has been requiring a 4 year degree (or equivalent experience) plus two years worth of work experience since the 1980's when I started my career.
This is not true. Associates degrees in IT that lead directly into jobs were common when I was in high school in the 2000s. Even as late as 2019, I knew people working entry-level positions that were working towards their associates degrees. Around 2015, I knew someone who was hired and essentially paid to study for their A+ and Network+ certificates. These people may have been somewhat lucky, then, but it's impossible today.
>In 1987 I bought a condo for $55K at 7.5% interest and thought I got a steal because I was buying for cheaper than rent. I just looked up on Zillow and that property today is $163,200. That represents an average annual percentage increase of 5.46%. According to Google, IT salaries have increased an average of 3.8% per year every year since 1987.
n=1. Median home prices were $100k in 1987 and peaked at 5x that in 2022.[1] Currently sitting at 4x. So, on balance, the situation is substantially worse.
>But that needs to be tempered against interest rates being so much lower now than they were during the 80's and 90's.
You might want to check interest rates YTD.[2]
I agree on colleges.
I would also look at food. The cost of eggs has about tripled since 1987.[3] Income has not.
I am being critical about this because it seems that you're one of my many seniors who don't understand the magnitude of the hardship young people face today, compared to what older Americans contended with. I hope that this helps you to understand.
Personally, I can go further. Things weren't too great during George Bush Sr. era where we had a recession so bad the media started calling it a depression. It resulted in the infamous "jobless recovery." Duly noted that Junior was able to beat his dad in the economy wrecking, job destroying department.
Before that we had the big market crash of 1987, which was really the planting of the recession George Bush Sr. inherited. He just unintentionally nurtured it along until it became a full-on, economy-wrecking recession.
Younger HNers take note of the pattern going on here.