ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs.
The repair on your Tesla will cost more than a motor or transmission replacement on a conventional vehicle.
Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Tesla will try to fight it and make you pay out of pocket.
ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs.
Sure they do. Take a look at the FICM failures with the Ford 6.0 diesel. In the gasoline world you'll come across failed injector or ignition drivers if you look hard enough. Failures due to environmental causes (like the wiring harness wicking hydraulic fluid into the control unit itself) are a thing as well.
It's not engine related, but BMW's late 90s-early 2000s five series uses a computer to control its lights. The failure mode is that your lights stay on as long as the battery is hooked up (fail safe). Unfortunately the IC that BMW used was discontinued by Infineon. I think a surface mount version is still available, but ultimately yeah these things wear out and you're largely at the mercy of the OEM.
Injectors and ignition coils are effectively wear parts however on an ICE engine. Though for balance here, I just had to replace the fuel injector on one of my cars, it lasted 30 years however, so I'm not too upset by the 300 bucks it cost to replace it.
I'd strongly dispute that. Why not include the spark plugs as well? And the fuel pump?
The ECU is a computer, a packaged bundle of chips which plugs in to wires and does nothing but communicate to other components via those wires. That's what an electronic control unit means.
The driven devices, amplifiers etc. are under the control of the control unit. They are not part of the control unit. They're located in areas subject to much more heat and mechanical stress, and in most cases (ignition coils excepted) are mechanical in function.
I'd strongly dispute that. Why not include the spark plugs as well? And the fuel pump?
Because...
The driven devices, amplifiers etc. are under the control of the control unit. They are not part of the control unit. They're located in areas subject to much more heat and mechanical stress, and in most cases (ignition coils excepted) are mechanical in function.
I think GP is saying they're physically located on the ECU board / inside the ECU box, not that they're conceptually part of the ECU even if separate. Whether they are or not (physically inside the ECU box) differs by make and model.
ECUs aren't perfect. On my old 2003 Volvo a common problem was solder points in the instruments panel failing after 8 to 10 years, and for the central ECU the connectors could corrode due to moisture. Luckily I wasn't affected by either. Of course Bosch probably doesn't perform "disruptive" software fuck-ups such as Tesla did here, and if they do, chances are good out-of-warranty replacements are free or at least come at a reduced price.
(But at least an EV doesn't have issues like VWs "maintenance free timing chain" skipping a link or two after 70kkm/50kmi)
Late reply, but nope, iirc automotive was one of the industries which were/are exempt from the whole lead-free stuff because the ECU are safety critical.
Non-failing ecus are down to overspecd components, and obsessive supply chain management, given a decent board design. One single capacitor swapped out for a cheaper spec one can brick a huge percentage of correctly produced boards. Tesla is new, and this is a growing pain, and result of not hiring, or perhaps heeding the advice of, those familiar with industry best practices.
It is striking how different the attitude to this is in Australia.
All products and services in Australia need to be fit for purpose. There's no strict definition for this but it basically means if you are selling a "premium" product, your warranty lasts for however long is reasonable in the eyes of the courts and not what the manufacturer says. It is very pro-consumer.
It would be reasonable to assume that a $40k-$100k car would last 10+ years. Obviously this doesn't cover consumables but bad memory cards would definitely be covered.
But isn't that the consumer's fault for agreeing to buy a car with "an unreasonably short" warranty? If Tesla said the warranty lasts however long, why would you feel entitled to legal protection for it to last longer?
If you're saying this part is intentionally designed to fail shortly after the warranty expires, then I understand your point. Is that what you mean?
EDIT: The way I see it is if I buy a car with a 3 year warranty and something fails after 4 years, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility to fix it because the warranty has expired. Why do you think it is?
Fair point. I don't know why I had a mental block and the idea of a recall never entered into my mind.
I completely agree Tesla cheaped out on this part, I just wasn't convinced they are responsible for fixing it. I'm still not sure this justifies a class action lawsuit (I don't really feel strongly one way or the other), but I at least understand why Tesla might be held accountable for their actions.
I think the length of the warranty is kind of a distraction. Say Teslas had a particularly generous 6-year full warranty, but this part was guaranteed to fail 100% of the time after 6.5 years and cost thousands to fix. People would be justifiably upset.
You're talking about whether or not people should be upset. I'm talking about whether or not Tesla is legally responsible. These are orthogonal topics.
Yes, people should be upset with Tesla for a shitty design. I don't think anyone is arguing that. I don't think that automatically means Tesla should get sued for it.
Then again, I've never tried to sue an automaker. So maybe I'm just ignorant of how this is supposed to work.
In a world of perfect information things would be different. If a consumer knew before purchase that a car was going to die shortly after the warranty ends, they wouldn’t have much of a case.
But if Tesla cheaps out on critical items, thus dooming a car to that scenario, and a consumer can’t know that, it introduces a different legal dynamic.
> Fair point. I don't know why I had a mental block and the idea of a recall never entered into my mind.
Because us tech people have been successful at hand-waving away product defects as mere planned obsolesce; we think about it as an option less and less. Point: Intel and all of the speculative execution crap, and specifically TSX (or the lack there of... but marketed as "Secure!" regardless).
Yeah it pisses me off. If you make an under-delivering pile of shit and make no attempt to right the wrong, fuck you and your company.
Your argument is not totally unreasonable - but not within industry norms. Also Tesla is the manufacturer for electric cars in the public's eye, if they get a reputation for unreliability it will set the technology back decades. (see the Oldsmobile Diesel engine from the 80's)
So for a variety of reasons, I'd argue they have a moral responsibility to fix it, INAL, so it's unknown to me if they have a legal or regulatory responsibility too.
<i> it's unknown to me if they have a legal or regulatory responsibility too</i>
Depends on the regulatory environment. In the main though people can expect cars to last for a good long while with maintenance, so a part that was guaranteed to fail well before then no matter how good care the consumer took of it would be a regulatory no no.
One might argue that this flash memory was not the correct choice for the purpose it was being used for, and as an expert, it’s was Tesla’s duty to select a part up to spec for the purpose it was being used for.
> EDIT: The way I see it is if I buy a car with a 3 year warranty and something fails after 4 years, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility to fix it because the warranty has expired. Why do you think it is?
The normal expected lifetime of a new car today is apparently 8 years or 150,000 miles. So I would expect the car to last 8 years on average. If a car is going to last significantly less than that on average (e.g. assuming this means the car needs a fix every 4 years), this should be disclosed in the marketing.
"years" of warranty is a silly concept anyway. If I buy a new car then store it in a perfect environment unused for 20 years (assuming we maintain anything that isn't stable like oil), it should still work as if new. If it doesn't, it clearly wasn't sold fit for purpose.
The repair on your Tesla will cost more than a motor or transmission replacement on a conventional vehicle.
Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Tesla will try to fight it and make you pay out of pocket.